Because I have recently begun Kenpo Karate gym classes, and my instructor only rarely laughs at me anymore. So what then should be our emailing game plan? You know how you can miss your window with someone by going on too many dates without sealing the deal? The maximum emails one person can send in an online dating exchange is five. And honestly, five is pushing it. The ideal email exchange before asking for a date is three messages.
You write her three times, she writes you back three times. On the fourth email, you ask her out for a drink. Whet their appetite, reel them in, then ask to meet in person. Either way, deleting is still the right decision to make. Am I a terrible person for archiving my emails? If my emails are too crazy, I used them as conversational pieces. Guess that makes me a weirdo huh? I do the same thing! I keep my fb messages, too.
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He was a friend of my friend and I hardly knew him. She even suggested that I just ignore it. But I rather do that than chat for weeks only to not like the person at all when I meet them. On the other hand the last guy I dated asked me out to dinner in the second email and we dated for 5 months and hanged out for 11 more. I still love talking to him and we text each other the whole day. Meet get a drink talk and if it works out go for dinner. Usually guys complain about girls never wanting to meet face to face. But go on enough of these dates and you learn that finding people willing to meet you face to face is not too difficult.
At least for me. The real trick is finding someone worth meeting. I have to agree with Kbizzy, you seem to have commitment issues. Sometimes I ask a girl out for a drink immediately, because there is absolutely nothing in her profile that I can ask her about, unless I want to know about her favorite pair of sweatpants. I am the opposite, which is why I try to give women the quickest way out as possible. I also hate writing about myself in a non self-deprecating manner this is why I suck at cover letters , however, I will talk about myself relentlessly in person.
Also, I signed up for online dating to meet people and not to develop a pen pal. Any chance of you getting out soon? Some people are actually boring. I hate it when they say little about themselves in a conversation. Forcing a conversation is the quickest way to frustration. The Subtle Art of Online Dating.
John, If a girl has nothing in her profile to ask or talk to her about, I move on. My sweet spot seems to be middle-aged Russian women who live in the middle of country. So yes, dreams do come true. Every article on this blog I have read with relish and a bit of mustard, sometimes , and almost every time I either learn something valuable and new, or I agree with the topic or viewpoint. This one, though… I have to disagree with you a little. So… maybe it has a generational aspect to it. Sure, it can be cost-prohibitive if you do it too much. Not like we were doing anything else anyway.
Or, well, you might, being the social gadfly you are. They should at least take a shot at it. They have to make an effort. Are they going to be boring and lazy in person? I usually roll right on by those people. Only then can I know if I want to meet or even email them.
This seems counterproductive to me. Perhaps it is because you are actually better at the email exchanges than the face to face meets? Profiles can be manipulated to achieve best results as opposed to portraying the real person, email exchanges can be crafted carefully to suit your suitor. And photos, well we all know about photos. You can argue that this bar the photo aspect can be manipulated in face to face meets too, but your certainly have a better shot of detecting it in person. I obviously have a completely different perspective to you B, but I see it along the lines of meeting someone in real life, at a club, bar, etc etc, you know nothing about that person, you meet for a date to see if you get along, have chemistry, are attracted beyond the beer goggles etc.
I also feel like this dating game is totally lopsided, men make most first contacts, and most go unanswered, anything one can do to avoid wasting time time is money after all , seems like a wise move in my book. I also think a beer and a new face, is a better hour spent, than a email exchange. Set up a face to face meet in a pub, turn up 5 mins late if you care about buying her a drink, she will have got her own by then , and explore a little. Also to Amy, I agree that it is lazy, but would disagree that its boring.
Boring seems more aligned to a perfectly crafted profile listing all your interests and whims. To a lot of people, it makes you the difference between an illiterate with no personality and a decent option with brains and something to say. I think it is a personal choice whether to speed things up and skip right to the face-to-face thing, or nurture the conversation side to things for awhile.liabinquemoufnia.gq/cer-lugares-para.php
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Both have their pluses and minuses equally. But I just feel like some of the comments here sound as if B is telling us to write emails for weeks on end. He blatantly said 5. Is 5 suddenly some astronomical number?
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You need to do what you feel personally comfortable with. The minute you start analyzing how many emails you need to send before asking her out, is the minute the connection turns inorganic. If you want to ask a woman out after one email do it. Having been doing this online dating thing off and on for years, there is one thing I learned.
Everyone is just weird.
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One person wants to meet right away, another person wants to email and be a Pen Pal for 5 months before they decide on meeting! So we exchange a few emails with a new match and ask her out for a drink and then she gets creeped out and hits DELETE? This whole thing is beyond ridiculous if you ask me. I had one match respond to my email with her phone number, she said she wants to meet potential matches right away as she does not like the whole emailing back and forth.
I accepted and we went on a few dates. No wonder there are so many single women out there with lots of cats. I'd go for it, and probably be happy to have the meet and decide if the guy is a possibility or not without too much investment. But I like spontaneity and boldness. I mean, all this blah blah and you're going to have to cut to the chase and meet in the flesh anyway, right?
As long as there's enough written communication to see that the guy knows where to put apostrophes and can form coherent sentences. Let's meet at X and have some tea. Bring a deck of cards and your three favorite knock-knock jokes. If she sends the first email, then I think he could ask her out on the first email he sends, but only if there has been enough small talk in those first emails to make it seem like he's not just Thrilled to Be Contacted read: I understand totally that you want to cut through all the endless emailing, but emails is a reasonable compromise.
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What would work for me: Would you like to get a cup of coffee sometime and talk about [that book we both love, or whatever]? Would you like to go to [fancy restaurant] and [long movie] with me tonight? I'm definitely game to gamble that on a person I've only exchanged one message with and wouldn't assume that person is just looking for a hook-up or is a sleeze.
The second is a datedate and too much of a commitment for me to make for someone I don't know at all. I'm a hetero dude but here's my two cents: This only happened to me once as a guy getting a message from a girl. She asked me out for a specific activity related to something I put on my profile, for that weekend, and she framed it in a humorous way. Unfortunately her profile made it seem like she wasn't my type I had in fact already seen her profile and skipped over it and her asking me on a date in the first email somewhat confirmed it. I probably would have responded to a normal message if she had sent it, although I probably wouldn't have asked her out on a date unless the emails went really well.
Personally I solved the same problem too many messages, not enough dates by going for the date at around the third message. There is going to be some proportion of the women you message that will be weirded out by asking on the first message but who would have accepted after a few messages, you just have to weigh that against really not wanting to spend time messaging. Even though it's true, I don't think "I'm sick of messaging people" is really a good way to make a first impression. I think the risk is more that you'll seem like you're mailing hundreds of date requests out to every random girl within a 20 mile radius.
Even though you've read her profile and whatnot it's still going to seem impersonal if you ask her out without having any kind of conversation with her at all. Personally, I wouldn't mind, especially if: Your offer is for a relatively casual activity in a very public place coffee or lunch - rather than dinner. You explain perhaps in an edited version of what you wrote here why you would like to make the date on the first email.
You mention some things you liked about my profile that led to your interest. This can include my picture but only as one of several factors. You are honest and polite. Obviously I won't know how genuine any of that is but I don't think two more emails would make that much of a difference. I did it by widening my search on a whim and found someone several states away and then we emailed a ton, admittedly.
It only takes one. I have to be in a certain kind of mood to go on a date with sameone I literally know nothing about so I think a few emails is important so you know you are on the same page at least. I think it is a really bad idea to use emails to build attraction or chemistry. After you know the bare minimum of age, work situation, big interests, whatever is important to you it's time to meet in person.
Yeah at least wait for a positive response from the lady first. If you wrote me a decent length e-mail for a first contact but not TOO wordy! But I have also found that I can be very interested in someone online but then discover there's absolutely no chemistry in person. You know, it might boil down to the kind of person you are looking for. I mean, I'd go out and meet anyone who seemed reasonably intelligent and vaguely clever. There are strangers all around everywhere, and I am not afraid to chat with someone new.
But I do all kinds of nutty things I lived without indoor plumbing, and in an intentional community and sometimes my SOs weren't into that later in the relationship. Maybe that's not the sort of person you want to end up with. I'm a woman on OKCupid, and I'm in the "go for it" camp. I'm a huge fan of X too, but I might have to debate you on innocuous topic Y from her profile. Would you like to meet for a drink or coffee sometime? If she has written to YOU first, then yeah, your reply can definitely be a suggestion to meet.
If I initiate contact, you've already crossed my threshold for "meetable. This kind of pattern indicates to me that the guy is patient, not a player, and genuinely intrigued about me but not in some desperate rush and not a stalker which is how I feel about guys who visit my profile multiple times a day, oy! Oh, and feel free to memail me if you'd like a little anonymous objective feedback on your profile, I'd be happy to. I have used and currently use online sites to find dates.
I agree that it is tiresome to write back and forth repeatedly. I have a pretty busy life, and all that time spent emailing can feel like having another part time job. So, I have been receptive to men who in their initial contact with me say something like: I am the kind of person who likes to just meet and see if we can hit it off instead of emailing back and forth repeatedly.
Wanna hang out tonight? Text me at " posted by medeine at If she sends the first email, then I think he could ask her out on the first email he sends Well, I'm not sure why you say most responses say he should wait till the second email he sends, since your own advice would seem to suggest a different rule: If the second email altogether is sent by her, then by definition he'll have to wait till the next email to ask her out.
And there is another view, which is basically that the OP should go for it in the first message. And yes, there are qualifications to that advice, but the qualifications pretty much go without saying: In other words, if all other factors are positive , is sending an initial message asking her out a good or bad idea? There seems to be no consensus on that: So you might as well try it either way and see what happens to work for you.
On post-view, make that: Haven't read any of the comments, but for me, I wouldn't be into being asked to commit to an in-person date on the first email. I understand that frustration, really I do, but as a lady, one of the ways I evaluate ok, evaluated, because I'm with a long-term partner I'm very happy with potential mates is by their written communication ability.
This is likely because I'm a nerd and love to read, but I'm not at all interested in people who can't represent themselves credibly in a letter. Rather than focus and get frustrated by the quantity of emails, I'd suggest doing something like this: Think about what you want to say, and say something personal, don't use a line or a paragraph just because it has seemed to work before and you're tired of typing. If you don't want to write something personal to the person you're interested in dating, maybe you should reconsider if you're actually interested in them.
Don't write an essay, don't write a one liner, just keep it moderately short but specific. Say why you're interested, say something about you, ask them a question, say you hope to hear from them. Ideally don't mention their personal characteristics as this is nearly always a turn-off, no matter how suavely you do it. They're interested, they reply to your question, they ask questions of their own.
They may actually suggest you guys have coffee. Respond to their questions briefly but completely and say you'd love to pick up the conversation over coffee. Suggest a time and a place, give them your phone number, and ask them if that would work for them. If not, when would suit them? If you don't suggest coffee on your second email, suggest it on your third. I wouldn't go past four email conversations without getting together in person. If they are really resistant to getting together in person, find out if there is a reason.
If there isn't a good reason, move on to another person.
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But no, don't ask me out on the first email. It sounds desperate and rushed, neither of which are good characteristics to convey. I like to compare online dating to a large party. It's just a way of making an introduction. If a friend of yours told you all about a girl, then introduced you two and walked away, wouldn't you still talk to her a little bit before asking for her number? Even if I had sent the first email, I would not have wanted the guy to email me back with an immediate invitation for a date and to be clear, I did the online thing for years and met my husband via Craigslist.
I get not wanting to do the back and forth a lot but still think there's a sweet spot at about 3 emails that makes it okay to ask without devolving into a protracted email ping-pong game. Well, I'm not sure why you say most responses say he should wait till the second email he sends, since your own advice would seem to suggest a different rule: Yes, in my second post, I said that the guy could send an invitation on his first email IF she sent him an email first AND if it was clear that he is not looking desperate. That second part is hard to qualify objectively, so better safe than sorry: I do suggest that if you ask right away, and a girl responds to your email but not to your invitation, send her another couple of emails and then ask again if you're still interested.
Sometimes girls play coy or hard-to-get, as ill-advised as it might seem online. Or do whatever you want.
I think it's polite and respectful to wait until both parties express interest even emailing you back can qualify as "interest" before asking for a date. I know the protracted email exchange is tedious, but a lot of women myself included use it to weed out the creeps, and I would be immediately suspicious of a guy who wanted to bypass it entirely.
You might be able to tell from someone's profile if you want to meet them, but I don't think everyone feels that way, and I think you'll scare off a lot of women who might otherwise be interested. Well, there is one questions: Is it you know Or is it a casual chat over coffee? There is a distinction that you should make if you do ask for a date in the first email. I think the better approach for a guy would be to at least go through three or so solid replies before asking for a meeting.
If you want to meet without conversation, stick to Craigslist - because that's where the women who want to meet without conversation first, are more likely to be found. Asking for a date on the first email -- and I mean either their first email i. I almost always said no; the couple of times where I did go out with the guy who asked me out immediately, I regretted it. I wonder if I can politely figure a way to go home in the next 15 minutes. I think it takes at least 2 or 3 exchanges from each person to develop a basic rapport, at which point it's fine to ask for the date.
That said, be willing to be flexible: I forget now before we were actually able to get together.
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I found across the board that if there were no plans to meet made by the third email, there never would be. The guys who ask in the first or second emails want to meet you. They want to get away from the computers and "the friend zone. They do things instead of sitting around talking about the idea of doing things. As a female, I found that if the guy didn't ask you out after 3 emails, he was there to be your pen-pal, and nothing more.
On the other hand, I never once said yes to an immediate, first-email invitation. It just felt wrong, for all the reasons others have listed above. I'm pretty new to online dating, but have found the exchange of two or three emails really useful to me before meeting up and that the "norms" set up by the site help me decide whether I wanted more contact with that person. Of course everyone approaches these things differently.
One example of what you're proposing that worked for me: Guy 1 emails me, tells me a bit about himself and what he liked about my profile, suggests he'd like to meet up but is happy to email a bit first if I'm more comfortable with that, seems happy to accomodate my preference to start with some emailing. Example of what didn't work for me: Guy 2 emails me, three line email about how much he hates emailing and using the site and would I just give him a call on [number] to get around all that crap.
Needless to say, I never contacted guy 2. How you get away with it depends entirely on how you frame it. I think the two to three email guideline is probably a good one -- lets both parties get some comfort before meeting in person. I met my now wife via an online dating website. So coming from a guy's perspective I totally see where you're coming from. I agree, it's a waste of time to email back and fourth 10 times before setting up a date.
My goal was always to meet a girl sooner then later for same reasons you've brought up Usually coffee was the first meet up because it's casual, safe, and leaves an easy out for either party. Something a bit more interesting for a first meet up is ice cream. It's less cliche and often more fun. That being said, I usually asked out a girl after her first or second email response. I email her once to say hi, tell her specifically what I liked about her profile, and that it'd be good to get to know each other better.
You wanna make sure you're specific about her profile so she knows you've taken the time to read it, and feel the two of you have something in common. Then if she responds positively I then respond to her going for the first date. This usually worked well in most cases. Asking a girl out on the first email will usually scare them away. Don't be so quick so jump the gun. It means you have to wait just a little bit longer to initiate the first meet up See, this is the trouble with online dating.
Actually, with dating in general, but it's a lot worse with online dating because there are few to no contextual cues to go on. Everyone has these rules that seem obvious to them, but they think they're obvious to everyone and that there's something wrong with people who don't follow them.
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